- on today's episode, oliver stops by. (hip hop music) - [gary] you ask questions, and i answer them this is the #askgaryvee show. - hey everybody, this is gary vay-ner-chuk and this is episode 234 of the #askgaryvee show. we've been on a major hiatusand we have a guest
which i'm excited about.- really excited. - before we get into oliver andhis new book and all that stuff and the questions from dunk, i just want to say what's up to everybody. a lot of you asked ifi stopped the show. i haven't. i was in la, i'm filming my show, my apple tv show over there just a lot of-- - gone all hollywood on us.
- got a little hollywood on you guys and then i was just traveling before. i'm just busy beingthe ceo, you know, i don't do #askgaryvee onlocation so and even in the weeks that i was here bunch of business decisions going into the fourth quarter and new year's so i just been working my time. - big election.- (laughs) big election. there's been a lot going.
jets suck shit. there's been a lot going on so alot going on but before we get into the show, oliver whydon't you create some context. obviously, we've beenrunning in similar circles. - we were on cnbctogether one time. - i remember that.- with the nervo girls. - that was fun.i remember that. you've had a really, youknow, great digital career. - thank you.
- i've heard your name awhole bunch through the years. we haven't had the pleasurereally jammed together so i'm excited about this but a quickone minute bio and then we'll go into this and then we'llanswer some questions. - sure. yeah, i started off intechnology and voice over the internet and video for theinternet with revver and then as technology started goingin to hollywood and in to entertainment built the lastcompany was called the audience. before that i was,i hated the title,
but i was head of innovation atdisney so i really brought that brand into social media. you know, broke it into all the characters and into the attractions. - so much so that bob feltcomfortable giving you a quote on the front cover which is always an indicator did the person do a good job while they were at the company. - yeah, it's a littlenerve-racking when you reach back out to thesepeople if you've left.
- by the way, i look at that. - what'd they really think? - i look at that because you know i've seen it a bunch of times. i was the head ofthis at, you know, at nike and then they're doingsomething and nobody from nike saying anything. so when i saw that i'm like hmmm. alright. - yeah, no, that's exciting andthen wrote this book over the
last year and half kind ofreally naturally evolved with michael casey, who is a editorat the wall street journal. we met on nekker islandwhich is branson's island. i was a speaker there. he came up to meafterwards and was like, "i think this really resonatesand i think you couldn't have "better timing," and it wasright as i was selling the audience so it all worked out great. - good for you, man.
- i'm very happy about it andthank you for having me. - so you know, yeah, no worries. what is this book andwhat's the premise? - "the social organism"most people see it as orgasm. - that's what i saw actually. i literally thoughtthat's what it said. - so, i'm always thefirst disappoint. - i can't read either.- anyone with dyslexia-- - yeah, i'm dead.
- they get reallyexcited about it. - i thought this waslike a social orgy. i didn't even read it right.- well, orgies are social. - fair enough.yes, fair. - so it fits.- so go ahead. - no, but it's a book that is alot of different concepts that came together and i was asked one time to draw the future of social. details magazine had said i wasthis digital maverick and those
things are cringe worthy, asyou know, and so they asked me to draw the future of social andthe only thing i know how to draw was when i was a little kidi was super nerd and i studied molecular and cell biology andworked in the research lab so i know how to draw pathways. like when you cut yourselfhow bleeding stops through the arachidonic acid pathway andthen i went into telecom-- - i figured that wouldcome up in this conversation. - yeah, exactly.this is deep shit over here.
and then in the telecom worldi knew how to draw routers and switches and things likethat but none of them, even combine those ideas, none of them could explain it in any depth. as you know, it's a verycomplicated almost soup of inputs and outputs and people'sreactions and so i just had this moment where i realized thatmaybe the only way to explain it is to look at it verypractically and say look this is really 1.3 billion organismsconnected together over a
network that has no time anddistance because of tcp/ip so maybe it behaves like one organism and so the metaphor stuck. and so i started going back, i literally went back to my old biology textbook and looked atthe seven rules of life and sure enough it fitsevery one of them. - and that's how you-- - you nourish the system, emotions are the metabolism of it
and so i structured it likea term paper and you know the publisher, once michael came onboard we actually turned it into a book as opposed toan academic paper. - and so, what dothey get out of this? as i'm thinking about somany people that follow this, care about social media,things of that nature, what do they get out of thisthat they don't get from my books, they don't get from otherbooks or what's the complement, where's the cross-section,what's the punchline and then
we'll go into the--? - yeah, it'stotally complementary. it's a little bitmore of a macro view. it's almost like--- the thesis? - it's the thesis. it's really like ifyou want to build, we agree on so many things. if you want to build acareer you have to nourish it, you have to feed it.
if you want to build a brand youhave to set a set of values and match those with the rightpeople and so it's really about at a macro-level patterns thatexist in nature and how those patterns are dealt with whetherthey are viruses or diseases-- - and you talk through it?- i do. - case studies? - it's from mypersonal experience. the book starts off with myfather and morgan freeman are best friends and we grew up in avery poor place in mississippi
and for 26 years of my life i watched them fight the confederate flag. - right. - and so the book starts offwith a moment when dylan roof, who i just went on on i guess hewas now competent to serve as an adult or as amentally stable person, but when he went into the church in charleston, south carolina and massacred nine people. - yes.
- and then suddenly overnight,after those images of him with the confederateflag hit social media, overnight we all viewed theconfederate flag maybe as a symbol of hatred and racism andovernight amazon took it down, ebay took it down, the statecapital started taking down, the hashtag #takeitdown, the woman bree climbed up the flagpole and became a meme.- yep. - so i looked at thatmoment, i was like,
"well, what happened?"right? what is it that causes almostan immunological response and in immunology it's key to recognize something as bad before it can fix it. and so a lot of the book talksabout how do you teach your body or how do you teach thissystem, this social organism, to recognize the bad orrecognize the good and then eliminate it usingyour own immunology. because if you thinkabout it cellular,
it's 1.3 billion cells. the only way an idea spreads isif one of those cell spreads it to the other.- absolutely, uh-huh. - so it's like how do wehave the responsibility to be a citizen within this and to keep bad ideas down and good ideas and to learn how to ferret them? and so, it's a macro-level butyou can take away from it how to grow a content business,how to grow a real business. the metaphors continue--- play out.
- they play out andwriting the book was really an experience 'cause we, literally,a year and half ago said okay now we're gonna puta punctuation mark, we're gonna write this book together and the stories just unfolded.- sure. - you know, whether it was theworld moved and once we looked in that lens, it made sense. people's reaction toit has been stunning. very few people haveit in their hands.
it's only been out a week andhalf now although we had great sales success in the first monthgoing into it pre-sales but people's feedback to me is really meaningful right now because-- - like you're best friend fromhigh school and your aunt or-- - no, it's like the woman whoworked on the trailer who got the book a month early who i'venever met before but worked on the book trailer and she cameup to me the other day said, "i've read this book twice and
"i look at the worlddifferently now." - that's good. - and that's that's apretty meaningful response. - that's an accomplishment. - that's all i can ask for.- good for you, man. - so i'm really happy about it.- congrats. - and you live in iceland now.- i do. i live in iceland. - there's also that.- in reykjavik. - we'll get to that in a minute.- yeah.
- dunk, it's time foryou to say something. - [drock] hold on.- [dunk] hi. - uh-oh, you'rekeeping this part in. - [drock] yeah.- okay. this is why i can't wearthese kind of sweaters. - [drock] yeah,this sweater sucks. - yeah, sorry.- [drock] it's okay. - alright. - [dunk] first question.- go ahead.
- hey gary. i'm wondering what you think ofsnapchat and their recent way of selling their spectacles, theglasses with the vending machine and how you think that playsin their marketing strategy? thanks so much. - oliver, snapchat spectacles. - i think they'rekind of brilliant. i think they took something thatgoogle spent so much time and energy on but effectively was
pretty nerdy and they made it cool. - yep. - pop-up stores and vending machines are social media worthy. - the distribution's been crazy. - yeah, exactly and if you only have a small amount of them then make it special.- that's right. - so i saw a bunch on socialmedia last night about a store in new york that just popped up.
- yep.- yeah, i think it's cool. - i think it's a big play. i think it could be maybe thesaving grace move to their ipo. - sure. - if you think about whatinstagram's replication of a lot of their functionality has doneit's created a scenario where there's little more skepticstalking about snapchat's growth. - a lot of peopletalking about their decline. - instagram sucks out the oxygen
out of the room with stories. - so it becomessnap and to play, to me what's most interestingis snapchat is the first social network that feels like a brand.- mhmmm. - you know, snapchat feels as much to me as under armour and soul cycle--- yep. - as it does facebook orinstagram and that crossover from just utility social networkto overall brand i feel like this captured that moment and ifthey can pull that all the way
through well then theyreally have something. - and they really made it where you are the media, right?- 100%. - and so that was part ofthis exciting brand and then the filters and the tools and the creativity-- - and then youthink about the live. all they have to do is add anupdate that allows that be live streaming and now all of asudden you got a whole thing. i'm pretty bullish on it.
it's early, i do agree thatthey've made it cool what was $1500 and not cool from google,three years ago so we'll see. evan, from me from afar, continues to deploy la brand behavior in a san francisco,silicon valley world in a very good way. - yep and they also making bigsteps to be a media company. so you saw where they stoppedrev sharing and started buying content now as anetflix would do--
- the garden walls of theinternet are popping up. - yeah.- let's keep it going. - [dunk] nextquestion is from john. - john. - what's going on, gary?this is john max here. i had a question for you. was driving and listening to"thank you economy" and at the end of the book you talk abouthow you would wish the self, the book with self-destruct by2015 because marketers would
have ruined thethank you economy. looking back do you think that we still live in a thank you economy? and if not, what kind ofeconomy do we live in now? thank you. - i'll take a little bit ofthis because i'll help you. the "thank you economy"'spremise is pretty simple which is can we scaleone-on-one behavior? what's depth verse width, right?
you think of influencers a place that you and i both played. you can have a million followersbut if you said go by this book, both you and i know thatsomebody with 72,000 followers could sell more books, depth. it didn't play out the waywanted because i had optimism in a place where i shouldn't whichis the punchline is businesses don't get a fuck.- no (laughs). - it is unbelievable how muchpeople don't understand
why my whole world has worked. my little thing worksbecause i just want to go deep. i just want to deliver valueand it works every time and the person who scaled the thank youeconomy the best in my opinion is taylor swift andthat's why she's winning. she understands-- - we talk about herin the book actually. - that's great, so great segue perfect i'm glad we can pass the baton.
- buy the book. - do some kind ofscary thing there, by the way. edit. i think taylor understandsthat going to somebody's wedding randomly may cost her 45 minutesand not have in an roi positive game but it doesbecause the pickup, the amplification, dropping apop-up shop for these glasses for snapchat in the grand canyon is not roi positive until everybody talks about it through
this kind of infrastructureand then it does. thank you economy has a lot ofdna ties to this and to your question the reason it didn'tplay out the way i'd hoped or inspired iscompanies are short-term, i'm long-term and people thatare thinking in 20 and 30 and 40 year terms are thinking aboutltv and lifetime value and then do things that don't havevalue in the short term. the reality is 99% of theplayers don't play that way. - you and i have been in the same business and
i think had the same values. it's remarkably frustrating whenyou try to convince a brand to do what you're talk about, to go deep and actually attach yourself to a set of values orpeople that have those values. i would say make thecontent that matters, put it in front of people itmatters to from voices that matter to them at a time that matters. it's like very simpleand they never get it. and they only want the top 1%
of people and it's like their trophy bag. and they're like well i gotdemi lovato to tweet about it. it's like, well, thatreally doesn't mean anything. - right, demi.- no, it is not, i don't. - i'm kidding, i'm kidding, i'm kidding. - she's a mass media artistbut if i'm making a purchase decision than i wantsomething that's closer to me. i want something that i trustand feel some sense of shared values with and these big macrobrands but taylor she kinda over
came that by thesepersonal experiences. - she understood it.- yep. - she understandsthere's an amplification, scaling the unscalable. - just this weekend she'ssinging thanksgiving songs with todrick hall who's, you know,a self-made youtuber who-- - she gets it. she understandswhere the attention is. she deploys unscalable behavior in it which then means it gets amplified.
- what's his nameagain one more time? - [dunk] john.- john. john, all of what youheard in that book is still an opportunity today as it wassix years ago when i wrote it. let's move on. - [dunk] nextquestion is from ck. - ck.- [dunk] yep. - who used some good emojis. (crowd cheering)
- hey gary!it's ck here. presenter, photographerfrom sheffield, uk. my question for you how mindfulare you of differentiation when it comes to personal branding? there's a million and oneentrepreneurs out there, not all of themswear like a judge, like you do. not all of them wear trainers like you and not all of them wear cool jeans.
so my question, not all of them want to buy the jets. so how conscious are you, gary,of your unique selling point when creating your brand? epic, you're a hero. next time you're in london iwant to do a photo shoot for ya. let's hear it for gary! (crowd cheers) - ck, i'll answerthat in a minute.
from what you'veseen oliver, what, you've worked with alot of influencers. you've got a lot of greatconnections in hollywood. you knew theinfluencers were coming, you knew the old school,you knew the new school. how do you see that?do you think that people are being thoughtful oftheir differentiations? - yeah, absolutely. i mean look, you know, thereally smart ones understand the
idea of authenticity, right? and understand and so i remembersitting down with a bunch of celebrities when facebook pageswere really scary to them and whether or not it was gonna be,me the actress or me the actor or me you know the guy that hung out with you at high school, i didn't really know what persona to do or what to present. - and people still, a lot ofpeople right here are like should i have a business page?- sure. sure.
- should i havemy personal page? i have a job but i alsowant to be known as the funny, vulgar, juggler buti'm a lawyer by day. everybody's in this clark kent/superman issue on facebook and social in general. - i always profess thatyou could have two lives. you could have this publicpersona that could be safe to do this and then you have aprivate existence here which is important because we are allstepping onto a public stage now
and there are things that shouldbe kept public and things that are private and i thinkwe're all always in a constant collision course with that. few too many drinks and atwitter account you can pretty much fuck up your life. - i agree with you and here's mypoint or people forget like bp dumped all the oil in the worldin to the and people forget. it's amazing what, i don'tthink anybody's talking about like all these actors and actresses and athletes have
so many mistakes and issues. america is quite forgiving. what we're not forgivingabout is the cover-up. - the hypocrisy.- that's right. - people don't like hypocrisy. - it is a death blow,it is a death blow. - in iceland, we overthrew thegovernment in a 24 hour period, and a long-standing system ofgovernment there because we had a prime minister who really didn't break the law
but was a hypocrite.- that's right. - and nobody likes a hypocrite.nobody likes a hypocrite. - i'm familiar with thatstory and you're right. from my standpoint, here'swhere i've been thoughtful, seven years ago i decided thatthere was something inside of me and the new mediums were in my favor, that good things were about to happen and i better just be me all the way through.- yep.
- a level of transparency andauthenticity that was extreme because i made the assumptionthat it was gonna really work out and that everybody onearth would know who i was. i still knew i wantedto be a businessman. i didn't want to be an actor.- you're getting close. - but i knew that, i made avideo seven or eight years, you should edit this in thatsaid that technology was gonna be hip hop. that we were in this1985 hip hop moment.
serious, hip hop '85 is equal to tech web 2.0 2008. that zucks and kevin rose and all these people, these were peoplethat were gonna, look i basically think i said inthe video or i said it elsewhere that tech founders were gonna marry supermodels and like evan spiegel's doing that.- that is absolutely happening. - and so i knew that then, i thought that would happen to me and so i've been conscious ofthe following which is you guys
really know my shit. now that being said, i have a counterpoint. there is very little contenton my family in the world. - yeah, i noticed youmentioned that in your last-- - xander, my little guy, i don't think anybody evenknows what he looks like. i don't think there'sone piece of content. so you gotta pick andchoose what's important to you. - for lizzie and i, it'simportant the kids don't have
that exposure and they choose,i think misha's gonna choose. i think she's gonnabe a youtube kid star. (olivers laughs) we need to let them choosebut you're in full control. - you're the dad-anger. - exactly, i can'twait to be a dad-anger. i'm gonna negotiate good deals. alright, let's move it on. - [dunk] nextquestion is from miguel.
- miguel. - hey gary, myname is miguel ogas. for some context, i workin a full-time ministry. i run a network of churchesfor my lead pastor where i'm traveling about twice a monthand you have inspired me to give my wife my laptop computer so i do all of my business full-time through the phone. i believe everything you'resaying about the future of the cell phone so i just want tofigure out how to do it right.
so my question to you isthis, what are some tips, tricks, apps, any type of hustleadvice you can give to somebody who wants to run a network,run a business completely 100% through the phone nolonger using a laptop? thank you for all you do. appreciate you. - have you seenthe google phone? - the pixel?- the pixel. - i haven't seen it.- it's amazing. - do you have it?- i have two of them, yeah.
- and so what? have you made thejump to phone only? - 100%. 100%. - you have no laptop?you have one-- - i rarely use, i have a laptopwhich i'm like if i have to download a bunch of, like right now i'm downloading a bunch of photos. - google has such agreat suite of products-- - it's amazing.
- they made, i assume, docand mail and calendar-- it's like intuitive and smart and and it's like you'll have an appointment and it's like, "would you like to add this to your contact book?" it's like improvingitself the whole time. - such a miss by microsoft.i thought two years ago-- - i had that phone,i loved that phone. - i thought microsoft, when itwas when it's dead in cell phone world, i thought they shouldhave come out with the microsoft
phone that was built to be youknow the business engine that it sounds google has executed. from my standpoint,there's only one smart hack. i can talk all about everything. different apps, here's thereason it works for me: anything that isn't great on the phone you scale through another human being. if you're able to affordan admin which or use some ai assistance andthings of that nature,
i don't write, as myteam will tell you, i don't write any... my emails are one word or like an emoji. i do so little actual work that if you're working in excel sheets and word and powerpoint and these thingsit may be a little trickier. as somebody who doesn't, assomebody who has like the team send "here's the proposal. canyou approve it?" and as soon as i get it i write approved andthey're like you didn't open it.
we can see thatyou didn't open it. i said approved,mother fucker. you know? and so, i think you have toknow yourself but i think the human element of having an admin or somebody else to close the shortcoming but i think livingin a mobile only environment. - sometimes i add a fewwords because i'm the same way. i'm like, "thank you,approved. good." - yeah.- "great."
and they're like, "i just wrote a treatise." i'm like, "well, maybe youcan slim it down a little bit." - it's the biggest inside joke here. people write seven paragraphs and i write back the thumbs up emoji. and they're like, fuck. - it's like can i get alittle more feedback here. - something!- something. i worked on this.
alright, let's move it. - [dunk] last one.- last one. - [dunk] from cory.- cory. - gary, what's going on? it's captain cory from captcory.tv and the captain's vlog on youtube. i'm in the back of the airplanebecause it's more quiet but i got a couple questions for you. first off, gary aside for yourincredible interpersonal skills,
what would you say is the mostimportant leadership quality that you deploy amongst those that you lead? and the second partof that question, what are two importantleadership qualities that we as young leaders can developthat'll make us more effective as leaders and have a greaterinfluence and make a bigger difference amongst those? appreciate all you do.love the show. i'm not watching as much anymore 'cause i'm grinding and
hustling but love it.love what you do, man. if you ever needa ride too, man, let me know. that's my big thesisby the way, oliver. unlike a lot of people, i actually want my audienceof people to decline-- - because i want to inspirepeople to actually go do. - the amount ofreading all our books, watching all our stuff,that's fine and i like that.
- yep. my tagline's alwaysbeen i get shit done. just get it done. - you've been a successfulleader in your companies, what's the biggest thingthat has really worked for you? - i think being humanistic whichis a word that i don't think many people, especiallyin this country, use. but there's a real valueto putting humans first. and it sounds so trite butthere's a real value to having empathy and putting humansfirst and looking at them from a
perspective that you cansay, how do i help you grow? what is both this sympathy partsand the nourishment parts that are going to help you realizeyour potential as a person? and i've started seven companies now and made a lot of mistakes. human resources is the hardestthing to do at scaling a company because i always makethe joke they are neither a resource nor human, human resources. and so--- that's why the head of mine
is called chief heartofficer, claude. claude is the number two person in this company and everybody knows it. it is the foundation atvayner because we sell people. - yep, exactly and so, i meanyou're in a service business, in a content business sothat makes sense and so i think taking a lens of humanism hasbeen the biggest gift for me. it's one of the reasons i moved to iceland. you have a humanistic society
that doesn't punish peoplefor their weaknesses. - i like that. - you have no poverty,you have no homelessness. you have reforminstead of prison. big, important things especiallycoming from a place like mississippi where i was born. you look at that and that's a place where people are not treated like humans. there are systems in place.
i remember with american expresswe made a movie called "spent" about payday lenders in america. talk about youraudience and the pains. that's $1 trillion businessin america that is parasitic. - it adds no value tothe system whatsoever. in iceland, a human human right is to be able to access your money. - here we have the basicprinciples of our economy are inaccessible in my hometown to80% of the people have to go to
a payday lender and a checkcashing place and spend a percentage of their income just to take just to be able to spend their money. that is not humanistic. that is counter to anything that will help a system grow and evolve. - i couldn't agreemore with the human-- - not to rant aboutpayday lenders but fuck-- - but it's a valid point and i think from my standpoint it's
listening andit's self-awareness. i think the biggest mistakecharismatic ceos make is they try to fake the funk and actlike they know everything. - mhmmm. - i always feel like i think i know everything and lot of you leave comments about ego. only 'cause i stay in my lane. there's a very narrowworld where i'm very good. i tend to never go out of it.
you notice how i have social media and business people on the show. this is not a healthcare expert. we're not talking abouthair dying activities. this is not, nobody's gonna beon the show talking about how to raise cattle because i'm notgonna put myself in a position where i do not know whatthe fuck i am talking about. - and so being all-in on whatyou know and then being very empathetic and listening and
deploying humility against the things you don't know. people pick up onthat real, real, real fast. because when you come acrosssomebody that works for you that does know the thing thatyour bullshitting about and you bullshit it, you just lost a winner. - yep.- you've just lost a winner. - it's about building that trusted relationship at every level of all of this. - i got to get thehell out of here.
i like your pants.- thank you. - question of the day.- yep. - and by the way,great meeting you. i want you guys toactually hear this. this is actually, we actuallydeployed what we believe in. one minute, i promise. we've done a cnbcthing together once. we know about each other becausewe've been running in circles-- - he sends an email, we're busyas shit and the answer was yes.
- yep.- i know how this feels. you know, i knowthis has an audience. i knew it could help. i felt very comfortable to payforward and create opportunity for the exposure 'causeit's a smart thing to do. - thank you.- anyway, question of the day. you get to ask any question. there'll be a thousand answersbetween youtube and facebook might give you some consumerinsights or whatever you're up
to or whatever you want. ask the question of the day. - question of the day, hmmm... - you could ask whatyour favorite color is. you can go very escapism. - no, that's notwhat i want to ask. i want to dosomething thoughtful. - good. - i know because this whole bookwas about the most inspirational
person in my life that changedmy life the most was my science teacher who saw me as thisremarkably disruptive kid and took me out of high schooland put me in a research lab. that's i know allthis shit about biology. so who is the most influentialperson in your life and why? there you go.thank you, buddy. it's great seeing you.- good luck to you. really good to see you.- thank you.